the second commandment does not forbid us from making artisic representations of things in heaven and earth. It prohibits acts of liturgical devotion before such artistic representations, either to the true God or to false gods.
No, the second commandment (among other things) forbids even making of any likeness of any thing in heaven, earth or seas, if the the purpose is religious or liturgical, or even if you're going to label it as God or a false god.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of any thing..." and that comes before "...thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor server them..."
All worship belongs to the living and true triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore, even if one were to worship a false god (a violation of the first commandment), that act is also a violation of the second commandment if the worship is not according the requirements of the true God.
True the second commandment doesn't forbid all art, but the artist needs to be careful. For example, Di Vinci's Last Supper is inherently a violation of the second commandment, always was and always will be as long as it lasts. His Mona Lisa, probably not.
I understand all of your concerns. But, as you can see from our mission statement, here at Veggie Tales we teach improving people's lives NOT preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and representing Him in every aspect our our merchandise. Simply look at us and our products as the alternative to "The irresponsible use of popular media's (TV, film, music, etc.)...impact on America's moral and spiritual health"
Nate, The Virgin Birth is really the vehicle and tool for our salvation. We do not see any one in the New Testament remembering the birth by having a celebration. And, many of the "Christmas" songs we sing include the grace or the sacrificial atonment. i.e. Joy to the World and Hark the Herald Angels Sing (3rd verse)
oy, bob the tomato. i am so grateful for my secular rearing. it helps me spot hyposcrisy so much easier.
why should we christian parents buy your stuff is THAT'S the point? we had self-improvement down just fine in secularism, thank you very much. believe it or not, we were just as moral as you jesus freaks, no matter how much better you think you are.
better products than popular media? you gotta be kiddin' me. i'd sooner suckle my kids at pbs than at your watered down version of christianity.
your arrogance comes through loud and clear, bob the tomato. believe it or not, those 'nasty unbelievers' have every bit a template for right and wrong as you do. what they don't have is the gospel...and neither do you, no matter how much feigning to the contrary you do as you cater to a very narrow brand of subculture.
“[secular people are] just as moral as you jesus freaks”
“i'd sooner suckle my kids at pbs [Public Broadcasting Systems]”
“what they [unbelievers] don't have is the gospel...and neither do you”
“all the very worst to your endeavors, zrim”
Zrim, while you busy yourself with fault finding, slander, and willingly exposing your kids to the evolution of humans from pond scum to man on PBS, we at Veggie Tales will continue concerning ourselves with selling alternatives to popular media. We never claim to preach the gospel only to have a positive impact and be an alternative in this evil age. Vilifying us is so petty. Instead you’d rather live out the gospel to your kids by exposing them to 400 years of lesbian and gay history (http://www.pbs.org/outofthepast/). I suppose that is your version of a “holy endeavor.”
We'll continue to promote values BASED on the Bible and hopefully that in turn will stir up a conversation in kids that you as a parent can rightfully lead them to with the truth in the Word of God.
i see you assume that cultural conservatism fell right out of heaven in nice, neat little package and is not at all vulnerable to biblical critique. honestly, bob, i am willing to bet the farm that you think unbelievers have no moral code at all, right? that atheists have no sense of right and wrong? typical, two-dimensional evangelicalism. how arrogant. yes, i tried swallowing all that evnagy'ism for years, all that glorifed moralism, until i found the actual gospel of justification instead of the "God loves you and accepts you just as you are." what a lot of hooey wrapped in well intentioned moralism. God doesn't love you the way you are--that's the whole point.
slander? sounds like someone can't take the heat of being a public figure. not every conservative Christian laps up your junk with a smile. don't like it? too bad. some of us have minds to think through the issues and are not quite as dazzled as the rest of the sheep and lemmings. at some point, the tables you have set up will be overturned...and i will be glad to see it.
don't presume to preach the gospel and just look to improve people's lives? oh, come on. why is it then done under the pretenses of christianity? where's the judaism and values of hindu and buddha and mormonism? they do those things, too. oh, wait, they aren't "christianly" so they are bad. as long as you want to boil things down to the least common denominator you must also include the diverity of other religions, bob. oh, no, that sounds like icky political correctness and pope dobson says that is bad, bad, bad. if you are really simply about improving people's lives why do you use christianity as the backdrop?
Zrim, what is sad to me is that you think black people are inferior, Jewish people are all evil, and an educated man with a degree is far better than one who has none?
Pretty amazing that I would accuse you of that without you even saying it, huh? But I'm sure you think that way because I once knew a few member of a certain church with other arrogant people who believed this way so therefore using your logic that means you must feel the same way. It’s truly sad that you are a racist and a bigot. What about the poor and the meek? Surely you have a condescending attitude towards them as well. It’s simply appalling to think that you believe these things Zrim…
OK, obviously I’m pointing out your absurdities by being absurd. In no way are any of your claims accurate. Your opinion has turned into certain glaringly evident themes:
1) I’ve noticed hatred in your heart towards other Christians by setting yourself up as the bearer of truth then building a straw man argument and painting the picture of your enemy (me & evangelical Christians) in broad strokes then attacking the claims in which I haven't even made
2) I’ve noticed this bitterness towards one group of believers that has been gnawing at you for a long time
3) I’ve noticed you have a love of argument instead of a love for people
4) I’ve seen you justify yourself by fault finding and shouting “arrogance” at anything which doesn’t agree with your philosophy
5) I think you are blinded with pride by thinking you’re doing me a favor by viciously tearing me down
As 1 Timothy 6:11 says, “pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness” as opposed to the hatred and slander in your heart towards other Christians.
P.S. (“Love thy neighbor as thyself”) God loves you very much!
Exchange ids and email addresses if you want to continue this conversation. Debate is fine and good. Disagreement is good as well. Upholding Christ is essential!
17 comments:
That's probably the only time Veggies mentions Jesus...except maybe for an Easter movie....
I like the ones that deal with morality MUCH better than the ones that attempt at recreating biblical narrative.
I get a little uneasy when Dave and the Giant Pickle comes to mind when reading of the great works of King David!
Do the others mention Jesus, I don't know... does anyone else know?
I have to believe they've broken more than one commandment with that idiocy.
Bah, more of this invent season nonsense. Will it ever end?
I like carrots.
The Christmas ones mention Jesus. The reason many of the others don't mention Jesus is because they are old Testament stories.
the second commandment does not forbid us from making artisic representations of things in heaven and earth. It prohibits acts of liturgical devotion before such artistic representations, either to the true God or to false gods.
Annon,
No, the second commandment (among other things) forbids even making of any likeness of any thing in heaven, earth or seas, if the the purpose is religious or liturgical, or even if you're going to label it as God or a false god.
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image or any likeness of any thing..." and that comes before "...thou shalt not bow down thyself to them nor server them..."
All worship belongs to the living and true triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Therefore, even if one were to worship a false god (a violation of the first commandment), that act is also a violation of the second commandment if the worship is not according the requirements of the true God.
True the second commandment doesn't forbid all art, but the artist needs to be careful. For example, Di Vinci's Last Supper is inherently a violation of the second commandment, always was and always will be as long as it lasts. His Mona Lisa, probably not.
I understand all of your concerns. But, as you can see from our mission statement, here at Veggie Tales we teach improving people's lives NOT preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ and representing Him in every aspect our our merchandise. Simply look at us and our products as the alternative to "The irresponsible use of popular media's (TV, film, music, etc.)...impact on America's moral and spiritual health"
I can't wait for the 2nd week!
thanks
Nate,
The Virgin Birth is really the vehicle and tool for our salvation. We do not see any one in the New Testament remembering the birth by having a celebration. And, many of the "Christmas" songs we sing include the grace or the sacrificial atonment. i.e. Joy to the World and Hark the Herald Angels Sing (3rd verse)
oy, bob the tomato. i am so grateful for my secular rearing. it helps me spot hyposcrisy so much easier.
why should we christian parents buy your stuff is THAT'S the point? we had self-improvement down just fine in secularism, thank you very much. believe it or not, we were just as moral as you jesus freaks, no matter how much better you think you are.
better products than popular media? you gotta be kiddin' me. i'd sooner suckle my kids at pbs than at your watered down version of christianity.
your arrogance comes through loud and clear, bob the tomato. believe it or not, those 'nasty unbelievers' have every bit a template for right and wrong as you do. what they don't have is the gospel...and neither do you, no matter how much feigning to the contrary you do as you cater to a very narrow brand of subculture.
all the very worst to your endeavors,
zrim
“[secular people are] just as moral as you jesus freaks”
“i'd sooner suckle my kids at pbs [Public Broadcasting Systems]”
“what they [unbelievers] don't have is the gospel...and neither do you”
“all the very worst to your endeavors, zrim”
Zrim, while you busy yourself with fault finding, slander, and willingly exposing your kids to the evolution of humans from pond scum to man on PBS, we at Veggie Tales will continue concerning ourselves with selling alternatives to popular media. We never claim to preach the gospel only to have a positive impact and be an alternative in this evil age. Vilifying us is so petty. Instead you’d rather live out the gospel to your kids by exposing them to 400 years of lesbian and gay history (http://www.pbs.org/outofthepast/). I suppose that is your version of a “holy endeavor.”
We'll continue to promote values BASED on the Bible and hopefully that in turn will stir up a conversation in kids that you as a parent can rightfully lead them to with the truth in the Word of God.
Love,
Bob
very predictable, bob.
i see you assume that cultural conservatism fell right out of heaven in nice, neat little package and is not at all vulnerable to biblical critique. honestly, bob, i am willing to bet the farm that you think unbelievers have no moral code at all, right? that atheists have no sense of right and wrong? typical, two-dimensional evangelicalism. how arrogant. yes, i tried swallowing all that evnagy'ism for years, all that glorifed moralism, until i found the actual gospel of justification instead of the "God loves you and accepts you just as you are." what a lot of hooey wrapped in well intentioned moralism. God doesn't love you the way you are--that's the whole point.
slander? sounds like someone can't take the heat of being a public figure. not every conservative Christian laps up your junk with a smile. don't like it? too bad. some of us have minds to think through the issues and are not quite as dazzled as the rest of the sheep and lemmings. at some point, the tables you have set up will be overturned...and i will be glad to see it.
don't presume to preach the gospel and just look to improve people's lives? oh, come on. why is it then done under the pretenses of christianity? where's the judaism and values of hindu and buddha and mormonism? they do those things, too. oh, wait, they aren't "christianly" so they are bad. as long as you want to boil things down to the least common denominator you must also include the diverity of other religions, bob. oh, no, that sounds like icky political correctness and pope dobson says that is bad, bad, bad. if you are really simply about improving people's lives why do you use christianity as the backdrop?
again, even worse to your endeavors.
zrim
Zrim, what is sad to me is that you think black people are inferior, Jewish people are all evil, and an educated man with a degree is far better than one who has none?
Pretty amazing that I would accuse you of that without you even saying it, huh? But I'm sure you think that way because I once knew a few member of a certain church with other arrogant people who believed this way so therefore using your logic that means you must feel the same way. It’s truly sad that you are a racist and a bigot. What about the poor and the meek? Surely you have a condescending attitude towards them as well. It’s simply appalling to think that you believe these things Zrim…
OK, obviously I’m pointing out your absurdities by being absurd. In no way are any of your claims accurate. Your opinion has turned into certain glaringly evident themes:
1) I’ve noticed hatred in your heart towards other Christians by setting yourself up as the bearer of truth then building a straw man argument and painting the picture of your enemy (me & evangelical Christians) in broad strokes then attacking the claims in which I haven't even made
2) I’ve noticed this bitterness towards one group of believers that has been gnawing at you for a long time
3) I’ve noticed you have a love of argument instead of a love for people
4) I’ve seen you justify yourself by fault finding and shouting “arrogance” at anything which doesn’t agree with your philosophy
5) I think you are blinded with pride by thinking you’re doing me a favor by viciously tearing me down
As 1 Timothy 6:11 says, “pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, perseverance, and gentleness” as opposed to the hatred and slander in your heart towards other Christians.
P.S. (“Love thy neighbor as thyself”) God loves you very much!
Love,
Bob
Okay Bob and Zrim. Enough.
Exchange ids and email addresses if you want to continue this conversation. Debate is fine and good. Disagreement is good as well. Upholding Christ is essential!
Zrim getting in a fight with a tomato...or is it tomaato...either way not suprised,
love you zrim, have a merry advent season!!!!
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