09 February, 2006

Way to Go! Cornerstone!

It makes a blogger happy when he can report that a Christian organization has held its standards higher than criticism from the outside world. Cornerstone University has fired a Roman Catholic employee for not fitting the University requirements of an evangelical Christian. (Of course my criticism would be why did they hire a Roman Catholic in the first place?)

Way to go Cornerstone University!

Catholic Fired

21 comments:

Droll Flood said...

"This would appear to violate one of America's most cherished values - the idea that one's religion should make no difference on the job. That comes from the idea of religious freedom. But this appears to be a case of one aspect of that idea clashing with another, because Graves' former employer contends in court documents that it was, in fact, exercising its own religious freedom."
-Is the idea of "religious freedom" Biblical? What is meant by religious freedom?

"This would appear to violate one of America's most cherished values - the idea that one's religion should make no difference on the job."
-Let the Mohammedon with the explosives around his waist going to work tell you that.
-Does one's beliefs affect the way they work?

The world's (secularism) answer: No

God's answer: Yes. You won't work rightly and diligently in a lawful calling unless God reaches down and delivers you from your sin, thereby effecting you to walk in good works, motivated by Christ's salvation of you. Good work is a gift of God.
"Nothing is better for a man than that he should eat and drink, and that his soul should enjoy good in his labor. This also, I saw, was from the hand of God."-NKJV Ecclesiastes 2:24

There is this commonly held belief: Believe that it is only by grace you are saved, but work as if it all depended on you. Is this correct in light of Scripture?

-Even the law has a religion behind it. In this case the law is tolerant/endorsing of idolatry therefore allowing this even to be a matter to bring before a judge.

-Yet another reason why I don't implicitly trust 'conservative' institutions...media or educational.

-Yet I can praise God that in His providence He shook up a pagan...and I hope that He grants Him repentance as well.

Ellie said...

I cannot agree that Catholics are pagans.My sister and her family are Catholics and they are saved by faith.Aspects of their belief system may be wrong but this doesn't keep them from salvation.

Actually I have know a number of Catholics may have been better Christians than my CRC pals.I also spent six weeks in a Catholic Hospital when I was 10.Most of the nurses were nuns!!!The Spirit Of God was with these people. I was definitly loved by them and they talked to me about God and prayed with me without hesitation.They provided spiritual care

I'm wondering if we can elevate our faith and belief system , ie our theology without damning the opponent.Christ was all about love.He also warns about condemning others.(Matthew 7)

I'm open to correction and wondering if as I learn more my heart will change. So far I'm focused on God's love and salvation through Jesus Christs death and resurrection.

Droll Flood said...

“…and they talked to me about God and prayed with me without hesitation.”
-Who defines God? To whom did they pray? Mary? Peter? Who defines love?

“They provided spiritual care”
-On whose terms, God’s (as revealed and in accord with Scripture) or men?

“I'm wondering if we can elevate our faith and belief system , ie our theology without damning the opponent.”
-What is meant here by damning? Is it wrong to condemn? Are we allowed to judge/ discern whether or not what is said/believed is wrong?

“Christ was all about love.”
-How did He speak to those who were promoting and living in sin? What about the Samaritan woman at the well? How did He speak to her?

“He also warns about condemning others.(Matthew 7)”
-How does Paul talk to the Galatians in the very first of the book of Galatians? Was Paul guilty of condemning others thus sinning? How about 1 Corinthians 11:17ff concerning the Lord’s supper and its misuse? How about Paul dealing with Peter in Galatians 2:11ff?

“I'm open to correction and wondering if as I learn more my heart will change.”
How can a person be corrected unless believes what is wrong? Is it wrong to say what a person believes is wrong? Is rebuke or correction apart from setting a person straight, i.e. telling them to repent of their sins and to believe on Christ for their salvation?
“So far I'm focused on God's love and salvation through Jesus Christs death and resurrection.”
For what did Christ die? For Sin? Must we proclaim/ preach against sin and direct those same people who were condemned by virtue of their sin in Adam and their own sins to Christ, the only one to walk in God’s ways, to satisfy God’s wrath, and effect His people to believe on Him without fail? We preach against sin and the sinners and command them to believe on Christ for their salvation. Not just brow beat without end!

Notliberal said...

Could it not be clearer which side channel 8 is on?

Droll Flood said...

Yes.
They should have said concisely that the Roman Catholic can do whatever out of hell he wanted to do, as well as everyone else in the world. Then it's just a matter of whose coveteous and ambitious enough to take the helm.
"Why do the nations rage, And the people plot a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, Against the LORD and against His Annointed saying, "Let us break Their bonds in pieces and cast away Their cords from us. He who sits in the heavens shall laugh; The LORD shall hold them in derision."
Yet the Lord reigns...

Channel 8 is promoting a worldview that splits belief from life. The truth from law. Principle from practice. These two things, principle and practice are inherently inseperable from each other, neither are they inseperable from man. Men INHERENTLY practice their beliefs.
I'll show you my faith by my works...

I don't expect if granted this one thing, the government will settle for just that. They want to control the whole board. This is inherent to belief systems. Bow your knee to them and they will leave you alone and protect you.
This is absolutely Satanic.

Elle said...

Droll,

You are very hot on the topic of Roman Catholics! I can feel the heat of hells fire roar from your condemnation!!!!!

My walk with God is different than yours. I've read and reread and prayed about your comments.I'm working with the Spirit of God that is in me and that is God's gift to me.As I pour over your comments and pray for my faith to be strengthened or changed if needed, my spirit IS NOT MOVED TO CHANGE MY BELIEF.

For me correction is a spiritual matter. God has and I trust will continue to move me with his spirit as it connects with my spirit. This happens through faith, and is a result of seeds planted by others and knowlege through the reading of scriptures.It is my walking by faith with God. Thank You God for this Gift!!!!!!

I do appreciate the exposure to your point of view and your understanding of how God works for you. My faith is only strengthened by our connections. Damnation, condemnation and judging others really is a matter of a persons heart. Again a spiritual, innate concept. My heart is a place God sees and knows and He judges this!! I spend time in prayer with God asking Him to come into my heart, empower my heart, protect me and to grow my faith and walk with Him.

Nate said...

Ellie

There are two kinds of religion:

1.A religion that attempts to be right with God through doing good works. (Example: going to church, praying, vows, rituals)
2. Religion that is by grace alone in which the religious person is relying fully upon God for the salvation as well as direction on how to please him.

Christianity is relying on the work of Christ on the cross 100% for remission of sins and being made right with God.
Catholicism acknowledges that God used the cross to make a way for sinners to come to him but they have to do these things as well to make their salvation effective:
1. baptism
2. conformation
3. holy communion
4. etc. etc.

Check out some books even BY ROMAN CATHOLIC theologians and you will see this to be the case. Christ's blood is not sufficient, it only made salvation possible.

That is blasphemy against the blood of Christ and the Spirit who applies that blood to the redeemed.

We need to look at these things through biblical glasses and not through the glasses of our own experiences.

I hope that this helps.

ellie said...

Nate,

I think that I am getting your point. Because of the additional requirements,salvation through the blood of the lamb is discredited. This evokes strong emotion in disciples of biblical history and theology.Because Christ is not given the total credit they are considered pagans?
Once again more to ponder and pray over.

Nate said...

Ellie

The point is not just for those that love theology, but for those that love the blood of Christ and the remission of sins!

Remember Jesus' reaction to the Pharisees. Also remember that many will say Lord Lord in that day and Jesus will say depart from me, I never knew you.

Sobering.

Droll Flood said...

"Because of the additional requirements,salvation through the blood of the lamb is discredited. This evokes strong emotion in disciples of biblical history and theology.Because Christ is not given the total credit they are considered pagans?"

-We maintain that our affections and our emotions are to be subject to Scripture and moved by Scripture. Paul opposed Peter to his face because Peter was not being straight forward about the Gospel and living as a hypocrite in Galatians 2. Christ was exceedingly and completely holy in His wrath at the money changers, etc. in the temple outburst of Christ's zeal.

The source of the strong emotion and condemnation is the substance of the Gospel itself, not just a theologian throwing a hissy-fit because someone stepped on his belief system. To discredit Christ's complete work in salvation is to BLASPHEME Christ, calling Him a liar...

-Let's turn up the heat a bit. They're worse than pagans because although they had the word right in front of them, they did not believe it. To whom much is given, much will be required. Christ etc. comes down VERY hard on those who assume themselves to be teachers and don't believe it.

"Because Christ is not given the total credit they are considered pagans?"

-If anything else is proclaimed other than His work alone, you're leaving something for man to do in his salvation. Did Christ altogether save you or did you contribute to your salvation in some way?

If there's something left for me to do, then Christ's not my savior and is a babbling idiot, so is God etc. and I'm dead in my sin and so are you and so is Nate and so on. Apart from Christ's death for sin and resurrection from the grave, the very idea that I would believe on Christ and obey Him is impossible.

I, Nate, etc. and all others of Christ's own are absolutely NOTHING apart from Christ. It is impossible for them to believe apart from Christ dying and being raised again from the dead. These things CAUSED our belief on Him.
So to proclaim an incomplete salvation /Gospel is no hope at all and is unbelief to the core, thus worse than pagans.

-If you're learning about God from the Bible, you're engaged in theology and doctrine.

Droll Flood said...

"My faith is only strengthened by our connections. Damnation, condemnation and judging others really is a matter of a persons heart. Again a spiritual, innate concept. My heart is a place God sees and knows and He judges this!!"
-Spiritual as in divorced from any implication outside of yourself, not to be weighed by others in accordance with Scripture? Not rebuking when you're morally obligated to do so?
For sure, God sees the heart as well as one's actions. He sees the motivation as well as the deed. If the deed is lacking, for sure He sees that. "Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works" -James 2 Be sure that men will also see our actions as well as motivations.

Ellie said...

Droll and Nate,
There is the letter of the law, but there is also the spirit of the law.
In our court system we have lawyers who present the letter of the law and it is for the JUDGE or JURY to determine the spirit or application of the law in each case.
Then we get to the warnings about judging others. Why did Christ warn about judging others???? Because of the Spiritual aspects of the law?? Specifically the spirit of God connecting with the Spirit of man and the resulting connection. This is for God only to judge.
Your anti catholic sentiment has reached a pitch that is hateful. I'm convinced this is not from God and is not in line with Christs teaching.
So you may say that YOU BELIEVE catholics are pagans and unsaved. You should not be promoting that or inciting rage vs.Catholics. I don't see how you can possibly believe that your honoring God.
Matthew 5 vs 20 (NLT)
BUT I WARN YOU-UNLESS YOU OBEY GOD BETTER THAN THE TEACHER OF RELIGIOUS LAW AND THE PHARISEES DO, YOU CANT ENTER THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AT ALL!!
I believe the point being made here is the Spirit of the Law being missed by the teachers of the law.
We must all be washed in the truth of the law. But when the spiritual application is missing, the law will loose it's intended effectiveness. We are to worship HIM in SPIRIT and in TRUTH.
I am truely blessed to have such excellent teachers of the law and scripture as friends planting seeds as I grow in Christ.

Droll Flood said...

"Then we get to the warnings about judging others. Why did Christ warn about judging others????"
-Christ was warning against hypocrisy, that is one who proclaims the Law and does not apply it to themselves. As if to say, "Don't you think to yourselves you'll escape or get away. You'll be measured by the same Law."
If you were to read the texts that I have cited in the past comments relating to this post, you'd find you're position of 'non-judgement' untenable. The Scriptures have many places where the disciples of Christ rightly, righteously, and obediently REBUKED/JUDGED others. Those disciples proclaimed against sinners and sin to show those sinner's inadequacy of being able to stand up in the judgement against God's wrath. The disciple's would do this to drive those sinners to Christ, that they would, if Christ had indeed died for them, repent of their sins and trust on Christ's imputed righteousness. Then those people would be living in thankfulness to God, hearing and obeying the Law, evidencing the new creation that they are in Christ. Much of the epistles are geared toward those ends, that these Christians would being admonished would, on the above cited grounds, thankfully walk in the new manner of life.

"Your anti-catholic sentiment has reached a pitch that is hateful. I'm convinced this is not from God and is not in line with Christs teaching."
"You should not be promoting that or inciting rage vs.Catholics. I don't see how you can possibly believe that your honoring God."
-Um...Ellie...the shoe's on the other foot. The very things for which you're condemning Nate and myself according to your standard, are the same of which you're guilty. There's no way aroud the fact. You're judging us in your insinuations. So you're guilty of your own conception of judging. The problem is with your wrong and erroneous standard. Repent of it and turn to that which we've told you.
I am not saying these things unto no edification, that is to destroy you, but rather to build you up in the Lord. I don't want to see a person going astray, but would rather see them glorifying God and living thankfully in accordance with His Word.

Droll Flood said...

Or, in brief, judge rightly. Bunge the 'don't judge' principle you've advocating.
Look at the text you've tried to cite against us, Matthew 7. It's dealing with hypocrisy. When you've got the plank out of you're eye, you can help the others get the speck out of their eyes. Inherent to the text is judgement, Right/ unhypocritical judgement. Not 'no judgement at all.'

Nate said...

Ellie

Providentially my pastor preached on some of the differences between Roman Catholic theology and Evangelical Christianity. He used a lot of the things that are said in the mass as well as some great texts. Galatians 2 and Hebrews 12.

If you want it I can email it to you (or anyone else). I could also burn it onto a CD and give it to you. I think that it will help to clear some of the air on this point.

This is not an easy issue...just ask my wife, she was born and raised in the Roman Catholic Church.

The gospel brings freedom though, this is our ultimate desire is to see these people freed from their opressive religious system and be eternally free in Christ!

Anonymous said...

Now, if Cornerstone accepts federal money, then they are wrong, wrong, wrong! Any private company or even school that accepts federal monies, have to abide by EEOC Laws, if they do not accept federal money, then they can hire, fire, and accept anyone they want. Federal money includes federal Student loans, medicaid, medicare. Do you get it now?
To this writer, some christian fundementalist are no different then the Taliban. I'm just waiting for the students to riot in the streets over some anti-jesus cartoon! Where I live in Byron Center I have had some bible thumper in tell me I shouldn't mow my lawn on Sunday. Last I checked, this is America, not Iran...OOps, west michigan, same thing!

Anonymous 2 (the one who won't tolerate babbling secularists) said...

"To this writer, some christian fundementalist are no different then the Taliban."
-And to this writer, flaming secularists are no different than the Taliban. Same coin, different side: Unbelief. Both positions hate God and His Word.
Why aren't you consistent in your worldview? Shut up and don't try to hold anyone accountable to your flaming secularist worldview.

"Where I live in Byron Center I have had some bible thumper in tell me I shouldn't mow my lawn on Sunday."
-Why, just today I had some foolish secularist ranting and raving about how he should be free to practice whatever he felt like without consequences and demanding it to be so. How inconsistent!

"Last I checked, this is America, not Iran...Oops, west michigan, same thing!"
-Yes, America, the land where you're only free to practice secularism ...and have to endure raving secularist lunatics like you.

Anonymous said...

I believe in God. I just don't believe in shoving my beliefs downs someones throat as is done here in West Michigan, also known as the bible belt of the north. I have never met a bigger bunch of kool aid drinking zombies in my whole life. People spend more money on their churches then they do their own homes.
I believe in freedom of religion and speech, would die for that freedom. Just please don't force feed me your beliefs. My beliefs are between my creator and me. Just because a person does'nt walk around west michigan with their hands held out in prayer 24/7, does not make them a bad person or a secular person.
Cornerstone U is probably missing out on one fine teacher but it has it's head so far up it's own butt to realize this because it's busy planning how to tear down some statues next.

Nate said...

I stand before God as witness, I have never shoved my beliefs down anyone's throat.

I did not come to Byron Center and type in this url. You visited here providentially.

I hope that your visits are fruitful and you find that you find repentance and life.

Anonymous 2 (again) said...

"My beliefs are between my creator and me. Just because a person does'nt walk around west michigan with their hands held out in prayer 24/7, does not make them a bad person or a secular person."
-However, you're demanding us to hold this view, no way around it. So what was this stuff about not forcing one's beliefs down another's throat?
-If your beliefs are between you and your creator, why are you so insistent on making us know what your wrongfully biased view of the nature of reality is? You're making assertions about life: that you're beliefs are so, and are (despite what you say) DEMANDING that we conform our minds to it. Your system of beliefs DEMANDS that we adhere to those beliefs that so you'd be justified.

-If shoving one's beliefs down another's throat means unto no edification, needless hostility judged ON GOD'S TERMS, then I agree. However, if that "shove down the throat" thing is a cover for asserting a nature of reality that is opposed to Jesus Christ's sovereignty in life, then NO WAY.

"I believe in freedom of religion and speech, would die for that freedom."
So what are religious beliefs behind the terms of this "freedom?" Does this mean you have unopposed sovereignty, without any accountability to God and men? That you can do whatever you arbitrarily want?
-I don't doubt that you'd die for your beliefs especially concerning freedom of religion and speech, but that's not the question at hand.

"I hope that your visits are fruitful and you find that you find repentance and life."
-I assert this as well, but no one will get this on any other terms other than that which God revealed in His Word. We believe as God has said in His word that our hope and very life is tied to that word, that is, all that we are is dependent on that word. You're not going to get anything else here. We will not bow to the religious whims of a raving secularist. Only to God/ Jesus Christ and His word. We will be more than willing to hear you out, but you won't get anything for a standard other than God's word here.

Ellie said...

Any and all
Just a reminder that Salvation is not the result of goodness. Specifically, because you are good does not open the gates to Heaven. Salvation comes from Gods son Jesus, who died on the cross, so that by faith we believe this, request forgiveness of sin, receive salvation.It is the blood of the Lamb Jesus Christ who saves us from the fire of hell. It is our response of awe, gratitude, and the working of the Holy Spirit that pour out the goodness and good works and deeds. If you think your getting to HEAVEN because your a nice guy, the Bible is clear, Jesus may say He never knew you. He wants to hear from you! His gift of salvation is free. You don't have to give money to the church, etc. You can be mean, ornery, envious, a murderer, etc. The gift is free for all who ask and the life changes that result are amazing!!!Don't be bitter in Byron Center!!!! Blessings to all!!!!